#DiplomaticCentennial Israeli Ambassador Tamar Samash on President-Government rift: I am sorry, I hope that it will settle down

The Israeli Ambassador in Bucharest, Tamar Samash, stated in an interview granted to AGERPRES that her country regrets the rift between the President and Government happened regarding the moving of the Romanian Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, but hopes the situation will settle down.

The statement made by Tamar Samash comes in the context in which, since Wednesday, Prime Minister Viorica Dancila is on an official visit to Israel. She also refers to the invitation to go to Israel extended by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to Chamber of Deputies Speaker, Liviu Dragnea.

"I am really sorry about it, because it is an internal Romanian problematic, and we didn't intend for that subject to create such a turmoil. We expect that things to calm down because we have very good relations between Romania and Israel, we are celebrating our 70-year anniversary, and for 70 years there have been relations between Romania and Israel, always good. It wasn't important who was the Government, it was always in good relations. I'm sorry that that rift between the President and the Government came on our account. I am sorry, and I hope that it will settle down," said the Israeli Ambassador.

She spoke, in the interview for AGERPRES, also about the need for the cooperation potential between Romania and Israel to be fulfilled, in all domains.

"We have an economic attache here, that is doing extraordinary work, but who is really frustrated because we have such a potential of cooperation in the field of economy, water, agriculture, energy, all these fields they are here, and the results are not what they should be. The potential is not achieved, so that's one of the things that we discussed," the Israeli diplomat emphasized.

***

AGERPRES: Your excellency, the interview is taking place a few days after the President of the Chamber of Deputies announced that Romania will move its embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, but the discourse around this specific question is kind of complicated in Romania.

Tamar Samash: First of all, the decision was taken by the Prime Minister and Mr. Dragnea wants to check the possibilities, the technical possibilities of moving the embassy like the Americans did, and to decide, if and when to move the embassy. There was no definitive decision to move the embassy. There is a will and we hope that it will happen sometime. The discourse that started here in Romania didn't take into consideration the fact that it's not final. We all hope that it will be final, but the reactions were a little bit disturbing, because in fact, moving the embassy, from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, and recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel is the most natural thing that can happen. For 70 years now, others have decided to tell us where their embassy and our capital is. There is no other place in the world where others decide for you where your capital is, especially since Jerusalem has never been the capital of any other state. The only time it was a capital was more than 2,000 years ago, when King David and King Solomon decided to have the capital there. Since then there have been the Romans, the Greeks, the Muslims, the Crusaders, the British, and the Jordanians, and they never held Jerusalem as a capital. And for the Jewish people, Jerusalem was always in the center of life, it was always considered as their capital, so it is the most natural thing, especially since the all the Ministries are in Jerusalem, the Hebrew University is in Jerusalem, and when ambassadors have to do something with the Government, they come to Jerusalem, and when the ambassadors present their credentials to the President of the state, they come to Jerusalem, so de facto, Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Legally, it should be accepted by the rest of the world, but sometimes you do what you have to do and not what others tell you to do.

AGERPRES: The Romanian announcement came in the context in which Prime Minister Netanyahu announced that the first world countries that will establish their capitals in Jerusalem would benefit from certain facilities. What does that mean? It could mean providing a building...

Tamar Samash: Providing a building, Helping to refurbish, but that's not the most important part, that's technical, but they will have their place in history, like being the one that had the courage to do that step and, eventually, the others will follow, but the first ones are going to be the ones that will be recognized as those that acknowledge the real sense of history.

AGERPRES: Yesterday, at a TV station, there was this letter, signed by Prime Minister Netanyahu, which was inviting the President of the Chamber of Deputies Liviu Dragnea to Israel.

Tamar Samash: He's going, and so is the Prime Minister. They've been invited to come to Israel, to meet with Netanyahu, and they are going. There are very good relations between Romania and Israel, all the time. And as... I'll be a little blunt, as the Government in Romania is changing, quite often - am I politically correct? - everytime there is some change in the Government it is important for us to have the leaders of the Romanian Government come to Israel, so now it's Mr. Dragnea and Mrs. Dancila that are coming to Israel, and we hope that we will have not only good meetings, but fruitful meetings, developing more fields in which we can cooperate.

AGERPRES: Could you give a few more details about this? What are the targets of this official visit?

Tamar Samash: Jerusalem, that goes without saying, but much more developing economical relations, cyber-security cooperation, agricultural contracts, things like that, and also the domain of culture, which is very important, because there are about 400.000 Israelis that came from Romania, or speak Romanian, so having Romanian literature in Israel, having theater in Romanian in Israel is important for us, and for us it is very important in the domain of culture to show to the Romanian public what we have to show, and what we have in common, because in fact we have so much values and ideas in common: films, theater, music, dance, these are the things that we would like to have the public.

AGERPRES: In 2014, Israel and Romania signed an agreement regarding the Romanian workers that work in Israel. Does this show the continuation of this particular link regarding Romanian workers?

Tamar Samash: Romanian workers are considered to be very good professionals, and as they are very good professionals, they are demanded, they are wanted in other places too, and I understand that for Romanians it is easier to go and work in European countries rather than in Israel, so there aren't that many workers that are coming to Israel now. We hope that they will work and continue to come to Israel. It is a link between the Romanian society and I know many workers that were in Israel, and sometimes even speak Hebrew, and that are very close to Israel, and have done an extraordinary job. We have shortage of housing in Israel, and Romanian builders, workers, are quite demanded.

AGERPRES: We can also talk about the fact that Romanians choose Tel Aviv or choose Israel in terms of their health traveling. They go to Israel to solve their health problems. Can we talk about a certain industry that Israel is building around these health facilities?

Tamar Samash: That's not only for Romanians, but all over the world we have that health industry, be it the Dead Sea facilities, but also the hospitals, that have good facilities for operation, that are complicated and can be done in Israel, but the health tourism isn't that much important for us, as the pilgrimage, people that come to the Holy Land, and as the regular tourists, that come to see with their own eyes, and taste with their own mouth, and listen to the sounds and food of Israel, the landscapes of Israel, meet Israelis, and that's great. We have a lot of Israelis coming here from Romania, so it is a real touristic bridge.

AGERPRES: When you talk about Israelis coming to Romania, can you also talk about a certain industry of traveling, what brings Israelis to Bucharest, and what are the main fields?

Tamar Samash: There are two kinds of Israelis that come to Bucharest. First, Romania is very close. There are 5 daily flights from Israel to Romania, with regular aviation companies. Romania is considered cheap for Israeli tourists, so that attracts the Israelis. So, there are the young ones, that come for the fun and they appreciate the possibility of going to a casino, or going to the "Therme" in Bucharest, or strolling and shopping here, so it's the regular tourist. And there is another type of tourists that come - these are the Jews of Romanian extract that come to the Motherland, that come to see the places, and to show to their children where they were born and that appreciate the old places, and appreciate the health resorts here in Romania, and that makes for quite a lot of Israelis that come to Romania.

AGERPRES: Going back to the visit that is going to start tomorrow Prime Minister Dancila will make, and also Mr. Dragnea. This is coming in a moment when there is a rift between the Presidency and the Government regarding this specific issue of the embassy moving from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

Tamar Samash: I am really sorry about it, because it is an internal Romanian problematic, and we didn't intend for that subject to create such a turmoil. We expect that things to calm down because we have very good relations between Romania and Israel, we are celebrating our 70-year anniversary, and for 70 years there have been relations between Romania and Israel, always good. It wasn't important who was the Government, it was always in good relations. I'm sorry that that rift between the President and the Government came on our account. I am sorry, and I hope that it will settle down.

AGERPRES: Because in Romanian law, the President is also the chief of diplomacy.

Tamar Samash: I guess the Government knew that.

AGERPRES: Yes. Also, on the matter shown yesterday, on TV, Prime Minister Netanyahu was mentioning the fact that Romania voted to abstain in the vote regarding Jerusalem in the Security Council, so Israel actually reads the vote of abstention as...

Tamar Samash: As a friendly gesture, as a courageous gesture, because most of the countries - three quarters of the countries in the UN voted against the United States' decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem, that was the subject, and Romania abstained, and that proved that Romania understands that that gesture is normal and maybe Romania think it's not exactly the right time, but it didn't vote against it.

AGERPRES: I hope I'm not wrong. The US ambassador actually had a speech after the vote and said that the US will not forget who voted what.

Tamar Samash: Yes, that's what they said.

AGERPRES: Is this the way Israel thinks as well?

Tamar Samash: We will not forget, we will also not forget who was standing with the US to say that transferring the embassy to Jerusalem is something natural.

AGERPRES: The Vice Minister for Foreign Affairs, Tzipi Hotovely, was here a few days ago, and during her visits she also talked to the Minister of Defense...

Tamar Samash: No, no, she met the Minister of Foreign Affairs and she met the Prime Minister and the two chairmen of the Chambers and she was very well greeted here and had discussions on all kinds of subjects, but she didn't meet the Minister of Defense. What was, was that the Romanian Minister of Defense, Mr. Fifor, went to Israel about a month ago, and that we do hope that the Israeli Minister of Defense will come to Romania, to finalize some cooperation between the two armies.

AGERPRES: Could you elaborate on that? The cooperation of the two armies? I'm asking this in the context in which Romania is reallocating the 2% of the GDP.

Tamar Samash: We know. We hope we can bring to Romania some knowledge that we have, also in cyber-defense, not only on the ground, but we have the possibility of developing with the Romanian military some elements that can help the Romanian Army. That is, we are aware of it, one of the most important aspects because Romania is a part of NATO, and that's something that is to be considered.

AGERPRES: What was the Vice Minister for Foreign Affairs' main message for Romania during the visit? Besides the one with Jerusalem.

Tamar Samash: Besides Jerusalem, the main message was really that we have to develop the relations. We have an economic attache here, that is doing extraordinary work, but who is really frustrated because we have such a potential of cooperation in the field of economy, water, agriculture, energy, all these fields they are here, and the results are not what they should be. The potential is not achieved, so that's one of the things that we discussed.

AGERPRES: Did you point out some of the reasons for which this potential is not going?

Tamar Samash: I think it's because Romania has so many needs, it doesn't know how to pinpoint exactly what are the first needs. With the visit of Mrs. Hotovely, one of the first things that we pinpointed was the domain of health. And that's something that we are going to target as the first priority.

AGERPRES: When you talk about health, some people say, maybe between or not between quotations, that Romania is kind of like in the Middle Ages when it comes to hospitals, Israel is state-of-the-art.

Tamar Samash: Yes, but not when it comes to the doctors. Romanian doctors are extraordinary. Israeli students come to Romania to study medicine, so the infrastructure has to be done better, and that's one of the fields where we can try to help, with investors, with ideas. When I was in another posting, we developed tele-medicine, which means that the doctor doesn't have to be on the spot, but he can help people that are far away, and that's one of the possibilities, even from Romania, because Romania is such a huge country and in remote places you don't always have a doctor, so that's one of the possibilities.

AGERPRES: Let me talk about Israel in a global view, Israel has a lot of problems with the neighboring countries, but I wanted to talk to you about the situation in Gaza, which is always reflected in the media. On one side there's Israel's stance, and on the other side there's always the humanitarian issue of the people in Gaza put forward. How did Israel's discourse evolve during the years, because they say that the people in Gaza are used as human shields by Hamas, and then the international community, in general, says that people in Gaza live in inhumane conditions.

Tamar Samash: It does not contradict one another, because in fact, with most of the Arab world, today we don't really have too much problems, except Iran, which is not an Arab country. Concerning Gaza... the Gaza strip is closed towards Israel and there are points of passages, from which people can enter Israel, or send food, building material, etc, but there's another border that Gaza has, and most of the people don't know - it is the Egyptian border, and it is closed too by the Egyptians, so putting the blame on Israel only is either not fair, or out of ignorance

Now, in 2005, Israel left completely the Gaza Strip. We left Gaza to the people of Gaza, and then the Hamas took over Gaza, and built their own Government and they are the power controlling Gaza. The Hamas is totally opposed to the mere idea of Israel. Their goal is to destroy Israel and instead of turning Gaza into a flourishing land... because they had the possibilities, we left but we left over there all the agriculture structures, so they could have continued to develop agriculture and to get industries there. They decided ot turn it into an entrenched camp, attacking Israel, and yes, they do use the population as human shields. They are doing, in the last years, Hamas has launched on Israel thousands of rockets. During the years Hamas has built tunnels to get into Israeli villages, to commit attacks. Now, they are provoking us, by walking to the border and trying to attack the Israeli soldiers. I don't think any other country would accept that kind of situation, when you are targeted by bombs, when they are trying to cross under the border, or walking, throwing bombs, burning tires, and swearing to destroy you. So we are reacting, because that's the only way we can stop them from attacking us.

We have no conflict with the people. We have a belligerency with Hamas, that does not want to recognize Israel, and it puts us in a very difficult situation, because Hamas is using the citizens, the people, and with Judea and Samaria, the West Bank, we don't have that kind of problematic, because until now, the Fatah is keeping the people quiet, so it's such a pity, that instead of building their own state, the only energy they have is to destroy.

AGERPRES: Destroying another state, meaning Israel? Israel also has the discourse of "We are going to go into the Syrian conflict only if Iran gets involved, because they want to erase Israel from the map".

Tamar Samash: It is incredible that a country member of the United Nations have that discourse. That the Foreign Minister of Iran announces at the UN that he is going to destroy Israel, and everyone thinks that this is normal, nobody reacts. They say "it's only words". Unfortunately, sometimes, only words will bring about terrible things, like in the Second World War, so you should take things seriously.

AGERPRES: And the Syrian crisis is becoming more and more complicated, so Israel's involvement is becoming more and more complicated.

Tamar Samash: Yes, because today you don't know who are the good guys and who are the bad guys, who is allied with whom, and sometimes, someone who is allied with you is also allied with your enemy. It's complicated, but now, like Alice in Wonderlands, it's "complicaterer and complicaterer".

AGERPRES: And the list of bad guys and good guys is constantly updating...

Tamar Samash: They are not always the same. There are many players, that in fact shouldn't be playing there. Iran doesn't have anything to do in Syria and Lebanon, the Russians don't have anything to do there, even Saudi Arabia. But they are putting their fingers there and making a mess and God knows what's going to happen.

AGERPRES: Could you define, in one word, the relationship that Israel has with the UN? I'm asking this because Israel withdrew from the UNESCO, and is criticising the fact that the UN is recognizing Palestine.

Tamar Samash: In one word, "good", in two words "not good". Good, because the UN are the ones that recognized the State of Israel, that created in 1948 with that resolution, the state of Israel, so that's good, we have that official recognition from the United Nations to the creation of the State of Israel. Not good, because since then everything that they have done was to tell us how bad we are and how we should act, and what we should do, criticising us and we feel that like "the ugly duckling", because when we are doing something, everybody is criticising us. In the last year there's been tens of resolutions, condemning Israel, and none condemning Iran, or Syria, or China, or whatever, for actions that are worse, horrible, and we feel that there are two measures when it comes to the UN, so the role of the UN is important, but for us it's biased.

AGERPRES: Romania is celebrating 100 years since the reunification. What does unity mean, at an international level, at this point in time?

Tamar Samash: That's a question for people that feel united. Israel is built from people who came from all over, so we understand very well how we have to build something in common, something that gives a possibility of being proud to be together. And I think that's something that Romania has achieved 100 years ago, by language, by culture, by history, that's what unity means, and we are trying to do it too, we started years later, and it's not always easy, but that's the most important thing for our nation.

AGERPRES: Does Israel require international unity when it comes to the question on Jerusalem?

Tamar Samash: International? Yes, sure. Nationally is not a problem in Israel, everyone knows, feels, that Jerusalem is the capital. Internationally, yes, I think the people do understand that there's no doubt that Jerusalem is the capital of the Jewish people, but the international sphere, the leaders, have are other interests that are playing.

AGERPRES: Going back to your mandate, you were posted in Romania before '89, and you told me in a previous interview that it was a different country.

Tamar Samash: Yes, definitely.

AGERPRES: Is there something you learned then, in that different country, that Romania is helping you navigate and starting to understand Romanians more? I mean, a thing you learned from the past of Romania, that is helping you now...

Tamar Samash: That Romanians are adapting very well to situations. At the time it was very gloomy, people were not happy, but when it came to the first of March, the Martisor, the streets were full of people exchanging the martisor and building them themselves, and they were so creative, they were not things bought from China, like it is today, there were things that they were doing themselves. At the time I learned that there is creativity in Romania, adaptability and there is inside joy for the people of Romania, and that's something that I always remembered, and that's something that now I found everywhere.

AGERPRES: What should the people of Israel know about Romania, if they choose to come to Romania to visit, to live here, and what should Romanians know about Israel, should they move, work, travel there.

Tamar Samash: The first thing is to never believe newspapers, because in Israel, sometimes, there's still that image of past Romania. They do not know that it is a modern, developed country, and when they come here they are amazed, so they should come and see, and the same goes for Romanians going to Israel, there's not a war on the street, it's not full of ultra-orthodox Jews, it's a country, it's a European country, with its problems - external, internal - but it is a modern country, and they should come and see for themselves. AGERPRES (RO - author: Oana Ghita, editor: Mirela Barbulescu; EN - author: Catalin Trandafir, editor: Razvan-Adrian Pandea)